Web3/Metaverse Chat With Mark Zuckerberg

Mark Zuckerberg’s vision for the metaverse

• Zuckerberg expresses excitement about entering the world of the metaverse and Web3.0.
• He mentions that the community is aware of his involvement in non-fungible tokens (NFTs) and finds it amusing.
• Zuckerberg expects a similar interview to the one he had with Joe Namath, where he was bombarded with selfish questions about the world of Web3.0.

“I’m really excited to talk to Mark because I really want to get into the world of the metaverse and Web3.0. And it’s funny that on my journey here I realized, oh my God, this interview is going to be similar to the Joe Namath interview that I did for all my sports-obsessed friends who listen to this podcast”

Gary Vaynerchuk’s curiosity and his attraction to Mark Zuckerberg

• Gary expresses his pleasure at seeing Mark again after a long time.
• He mentions that a lot of exciting things are happening in the world and he appreciates Mark’s ability to ask good questions.

“Okay, Mark, first and foremost, great to see you. And how are you? It’s been a long time since we did something like this. But I’m excited to get a chance to do it. There’s just so many cool things going on. And, obviously, you know, you are a good question-asker”

Mark Zuckerberg’s perspective on the metaverse and Web3.0

• Zuckerberg sees the metaverse as the next frontier in social connection, similar to how social networks were when they began in 2004.
• He believes that most people view Meta as a social media company, but it is fundamentally a technology company that builds various technologies to enhance human communication.
• Social media is an important part of their mission, but they are focused on building platforms and experiences that go beyond just social media.

“Meta, for me today, it feels like the next frontier in social connection. In the same way that social networks were when they first started in 2004. And that’s a big reason why we wanted to change the brand for the company and what I think most people think of us today as a social media company. But the reality is we’re a technology company that’s building all of these different technologies to help people communicate and try to enhance human connection. And, of course, social media is an important part of that. But I think it’s going to become increasingly about building platforms and experiences”

The Feeling of Presence

• In the metaverse, you can experience a sense of presence, as if you are actually there with someone else.
• There are both virtual and augmented reality components in the metaverse that contribute to this feeling.
• Mark Zuckerberg is excited about the progress made in the past seven years in creating this immersive experience.
• “It’s crazy to see how it has started,” he says.

“There are both virtual and augmented reality components in the metaverse, and I’m very excited about it.”

Horizon Workrooms and Social Interaction

• Facebook has launched “Horizon Workrooms,” an example of an experience where you can feel like you are present with someone else in a different location.
• The metaverse is not just about gaming. It has now expanded to include social interaction and hanging out as the primary way people spend their time on these platforms.
• Mark Zuckerberg believes that this evolution is logical and aligns with his own experience.

“The metaverse is not just about games. I think games are the natural starting point, but then we started to see in this stage that social interaction and hanging out has become the bigger way that people spend time on these platforms.”

“Oculus” and Observing Behaviors

• When Gary asks about these platforms, Mark confirms that he is specifically talking about the behaviors observed in users of “Oculus.”
• The decision to acquire “Oculus” was intriguing because of Mark’s previous acquisitions like “Instagram” and the competition with “Snapchat,” which were all logical moves for him based on his interests and current trends.
• The current focus is on how people can play in this space and enhance their experiences.

“When I talk about these platforms, I’m specifically talking about the behaviors observed in people using “Oculus.” The decision to acquire “Oculus” was intriguing because it aligned with my interests and the trends at the time.”

The Progression in the Metaverse

• The metaverse journey began seven years ago when Mark recalls the acquisition of “Oculus” by Meta.
• The focus on building social applications that can be used on smartphones, which are limited in providing a truly immersive and connected experience.
• The goal is to create digital social experiences where people feel like they are truly together, collaborating and interacting, and current technology does not offer that.

“We spend most of our days using social apps on our small phones. And despite their power, your phone is with you all the time, but it’s also very constrained. You don’t get a sense of truly being with someone else. So, the real dream here of building these social digital experiences is actually being able to achieve that feeling of being there together, doing something together, and then kind of collaborating in some way. And we just don’t have the technology to do that today.”

The Future of the Metaverse

• The metaverse is a progression beyond video as a main medium of sharing experiences.
• While the internet initially revolved around text messaging and then became visual and mobile with the advent of cameras in smartphones, there is still more to come.
• Mark believes that there will be something beyond video, more immersive and something that can be experienced throughout the day.
• The metaverse will offer a truly immersive and interactive experience, surpassing the limitations of current technology.

“Video has become the main way that we share experiences. But I think there’s going to be something that comes after video that’s even more immersive, that’s even more of a way to experience things throughout the day. So, the hope here is that the metaverse or these immersive social experiences can overcome those limitations.”

The Future of Augmented Reality

• In the next three to five years, instead of watching videos, you could have an augmented reality version of the conversation.
• Mark envisions a scenario where he is a 3D hologram in his living room, or the viewer’s living room.

“It would be really amazing.”

The Challenge of Communicating

• Mark acknowledges that talking about the future of technology is always a big challenge.
• Gary references an ad where Mark races against someone as part of a demonstration.
• Gary asks if the prediction of 3-5 years is a strong guess or overly optimistic.
• Mark mentions that the advancements with 5G have been significant, and he has seen some exciting things in his briefings.

“I am optimistic.”

The Evolution of Virtual Reality

• Mark explains the distinction between virtual reality and augmented reality.
• He mentions the success of the Quest and Quest 2 devices, and how they have influenced the widespread adoption of virtual reality.
• The Quest 2 has been a meaningful step forward in terms of innovation and sales.

“We got millions of them.”

Expanding Use Cases in Virtual Reality

• Mark highlights the diverse range of use cases in virtual reality, from gaming to social interactions to fitness.
• He mentions how fitness apps in the Quest have gained traction, similar to Peloton’s model but without the need for expensive equipment.
• The ability to have a portable device for various cardio exercises and activities is an appealing aspect of VR fitness.

“It’s really cool.”

The Challenge of Augmented Reality Devices

• Gary brings up the 3D fencing video with Lenny Kravitz and wonders about the requirement for augmented reality glasses.
• Mark acknowledges that creating the right optical set and building the infrastructure for augmented reality is more challenging than virtual reality.
• He mentions the need for a new form factor and display technology.

“You’re inventing a whole new branch.”

Providing a Natural Augmented Reality Experience

• Mark explains the need to design a device and waveguides that can provide a natural-looking augmented reality experience.
• The goal is to create glasses that seamlessly blend the virtual and physical worlds.

“Getting glasses to look natural.”

The Potential of Augmented Reality

• Augmented reality (AR) offers exciting possibilities in terms of science and engineering.
• For AR to be widely adopted, it needs to be comfortable and convenient to wear, just like regular glasses.
• Virtual reality (VR) can be done in the comfort of your own living room, but AR requires an internet connection and active operation.

“There’s a lot of interesting science and engineering. But for augmented reality, if you’re going to wear it all day, it really needs to be a factor of form like regular glasses.”

The Possibility of Contact Lens-like Devices

• The conversation shifts to speculating about the future of AR, discussing the possibility of AR contact lenses.
• The guest interrupts and wonders if it could be in the form of contact lenses rather than complex overlays like glasses.
• The practicality and synchronization with the rest of the internet are questioned.

“What if it’s in the form of contact lenses, not complex overlays like glasses? How do you get that synchronization with the rest of the internet and run it all day?”

Comparing AR Contact Lenses to Pokemon Go

• The conversation references the popularity of Pokemon Go and how it captivated people’s attention.
• The guest mentions the phenomenon of people venturing into the real world, trying to find virtual characters.
• There is a realization that AR has the potential to create similar experiences in the future.

“I think Pokemon Go was interesting and really had that moment where people were on highways and jumping into forests to try to find Pikachu. I would lose… I was really good at this game as well but I would lose that bet and then it became this thunderbolt through the phone that there will be this other important scale AR… surprising to me.”

Augmented Reality Filters and Effects

• The discussion touches on filters and effects that enhance reality in some way, similar to those used on social media platforms like Instagram and Snapchat.
• These filters and effects enhance the appearance and visuals, adding layers of AR to the real world.
• There is anticipation for more advanced AR experiences as technology progresses, with the potential to incorporate 3D images into the real world.

“But in terms of things that enhance reality in some way, I think you think of filters, face filters and different effects that you see on Instagram and Snapchat… I think that’s a real thing. I think it’s going to be real AR and I think there’s going to be a lot of opportunities once you get glasses that look like regular glasses that can put 3D images into the world.”

The Experience of Touch in AR

• The topic of touch in AR is introduced, with the observation that physical interaction is necessary to complete the immersive experience.
• The discussion revolves around the ability of AR to provide haptic feedback, enabling users to experience the sensation when interacting with virtual objects.
• The importance of touch in enhancing the overall AR experience is emphasized.

“But the other piece of this, you need touch. So when you swing a sword in 3D with a 3D sword, you feel it.”

Exploring a New and Interesting Field

• The speaker is mentioning that there is another interesting field they are researching.
• They are unsure about the exact timing of when it will come to fruition.
• It is something they are currently working on because they believe it is an important part of the bigger picture.

“This is another interesting field that we are researching. We are unsure about the exact timing, but we are working on it because we believe it is an important part of the bigger picture.”

Importance of Being Able to Feel Pressure

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of being able to feel pressure in various activities such as playing basketball, hitting someone’s hand, or shaking hands.
• They mention that being able to feel pressure is an essential part of the overall experience.

“You want to be able to feel pressure, whether you are playing basketball, hitting someone’s hand, or shaking hands. It is important to be able to feel pressure in those situations.”

Transparency and Communication within the Organization

• The speaker mentions that when they make a move to the next place, it is often more for their internal team than for the external world.
• They highlight the importance of their internal team understanding where they are trying to take the company or their personal brand.
• Without their team understanding their vision and goals, there is no chance for success.

“When I make a move to the next place, it is often more for our internal team than the external world. If they don’t understand where I am trying to take ‘Veyner’ or my personal brand, then there is no chance for success.”

Setting Priorities and Principles for the Company

• The management of the company revolves around setting priorities and principles for the desired destination.
• The speaker believes that the most effective way to communicate with the organization is by expressing these priorities and principles externally.
• By doing so, people can understand their commitment and seriousness towards those goals.

“Managing a company involves setting priorities and principles for the destination you want to go to. The most effective way to communicate with the organization is by expressing those priorities and principles externally because people now know that you are serious about it.”

The Commitment and Energy Behind Building the Metaverse

• The speaker mentions that there is immense pressure to find any other organization that cares as much as they do and puts in the same amount of energy into building different parts of the future.
• They believe that “Meta” has become the first place for those who care about these problems and want to work on them.

“You will be hard-pressed to find any other organization that cares as much and puts in the same amount of energy into building different parts of the future. ‘Meta’ has become the first place for those who care about these problems and want to work on them.”

The Scope of Meta’s Investments in Virtual Reality

• The speaker mentions that they have been working on virtual reality devices for seven years.
• Their investment in virtual reality has steadily increased, and in 2021, they are investing more than $10 billion in this field.
• Although it is not the biggest part of what they do, it holds significant meaning.

“We have been working on virtual reality devices for seven years. Our investment in this field has steadily increased, and in 2021, we are investing more than $10 billion in it. Although it is not the biggest part of what we do, it holds significant meaning.”

Open Commitment as a Recruitment Tool

• The speaker explains that when publicly making a commitment, they receive both haters and critics.
• However, they also see it as a way to recruit the best engineers in the field who are truly passionate about the company’s goals.

“When you publicly make a commitment, you will receive both haters and critics. However, it is also a way to attract the best engineers in the field who are truly passionate about our goals.”

Importance of Authenticity in Pursuing your Goals

• People who are genuinely interested in something and want to achieve it are attracted to those who have the courage to say, “I’m going to go for it” .
• Regardless of the complexity and challenges involved, it is important to be true to yourself and state what you want to pursue .
• Being authentic and honest about your desires and goals will attract the right people to join your team, including investors and partners .
• It is crucial not to be ashamed of what you want and not pretend to be something you’re not in order to please critics .

“What I found in my journey is that it’s best not to be ashamed of it and not pretend you’re something you’re not, and try to please the critics. The more that you can be honest with who you are and what you want to do, I think you’re going to get the right people to join your team. You’re going to get the right investors. You’re going to get the right partners. And I think that’s kind of how you move forward.”

Mark Zuckerberg’s vision for Web3/Metaverse

• Zuckerberg talks about the early days when he took steps towards building platforms like Facebook .
• He mentions that in the beginning, people didn’t care about these platforms or the direction they were heading in .
• Zuckerberg emphasizes the significance these platforms now hold as the foundation for building social networks .

“I think sometimes when you invent these things, they can be destructive. And I think you need to make the commitment to follow through with that.”

Importance of other companies in the space

• Zuckerberg acknowledges the value and uniqueness in companies like Instagram, WhatsApp, and Snapchat .
• He believes that these companies have built something truly special .
• Zuckerberg mentions that he recently looked into these companies and realized their importance .

“I think there’s something; I think often people tend to look at these social apps and think they’re trivial, early on and they think these dynamics aren’t important. Oh, it’s filtered photos or oh, it’s disappearing photos or whatever. Or it’s just for college kids.”

Overcoming challenges and the potential of Web3

• Zuckerberg recollects the difficulties they faced as a company during the initial stages .
• He saw those challenges as an opportunity to build something important .
• Zuckerberg believes that the world has underestimated the potential of Web3 .

“I think the world may be underestimating that. And I think we as a company have the skills to build those things and reach more than a billion people around the world.”

Core skills for developing Metaverse

• Zuckerberg talks about the main focus areas for building the Metaverse .
• These areas include building social experiences and intensifying network effects .
• He emphasizes that social media will continue to be the foundation of what they do .

“And I think there are two skills there, there’s a kind of building social experience and then there’s helping intensify the network around that.”

Exploring the potential of Meta

• Zuckerberg mentions that the renaming of the company to Meta doesn’t mean they are no longer focused on social media .
• He highlights that social media will remain at the core of what they do .
• Zuckerberg mentions the goal of building experiences in virtual reality and augmented reality .

“And I think that that’s what’s so central about this change in brand to Meta is it doesn’t mean that we’re not going to be focused on social media anymore. That’s like, this is the core of what we do. And it includes our work to build the Metaverse and build these future platforms.”

The Future of Social Platforms

• The development and advancement of social platforms will continue to be a focus.
• The focus will be on building and developing applications and adding more social mechanisms.
• There is a lot of innovation and invention that can happen in this space.

“I think there’s a lot to be invented there.”

Evolution of Social Media and Smartphones

• Social media platforms, like Facebook, started in conjunction with the rise of smartphones.
• Apple may have already been working on the iPhone during that time.
• The introduction of the iPhone in 2007 shaped the smartphone industry.
• Although many transformative and widely-used experiences have been built, there are still limitations due to the size and policies of certain companies.

Passion for the Metaverse and the Next Paradigm Shift

• The author feels passionate about aiding in the transition to the next fundamental shift in the system.
• Accelerating access to virtual and augmented reality will enhance social experiences.
• Platforms should be designed around people and their interactions, similar to how we interact with the physical world.
• The metaverse would enable seamless integration of all digital experiences, unlike isolated applications today.

“I think this is going to be really exciting.”

The Atomic Unit in the Metaverse

• In the metaverse, the atomic unit will revolve around individuals and their possessions, friends, and connections.
• Users will have digital avatars, digital clothing, and digital tools.
• Unlike current applications, the metaverse will facilitate seamless interoperability.

“Your key experiences are in your identity, your digital representation, and all of your stuff.”

Enhancing Social Experiences in the Metaverse

• In the metaverse, users will have heightened social experiences due to the seamless integration of their digital identities and possessions.
• Expectations include a frictionless flow of information and experiences across various platforms.

“I think this will be really exciting.”

Helping Accelerate the Metaverse

• The author aspires to assist in accelerating the realization of the metaverse.
• The goal is to make it possible for users to seamlessly bring all their digital experiences together.

“I just wanna help make that happen as quickly as possible.”

The Wave of NFTs and Web 3.0

• The author reflects on the 2017 wave of interest in NFTs, starting with “CryptoKitties.”
• This year has been significant for NFTs, with projects like “Bored Ape” and “VeeFriends.”

“It’s clear to me this was the year of NFTs.”

“I think it’s particularly powerful in Web3, given that you’re representing yourself and your things.”

The Rise of Virtual Goods and Currencies

• In late last year, the speaker became a believer in Web3 and the Metaverse concept, largely due to the popularity of “Farmville” on Facebook.
• Two significant events occurred during that year: the speaker observed the phenomenon of people buying virtual items on “Farmville” because they wanted to demonstrate their social currency to their friends and feel skilled in the game.
• Another example mentioned is “Zy Frank,” one of the first video bloggers who influenced people to buy virtual gifts for him while he was riding a tractor with little to no compensation.

“There were these early examples like ‘Farmville’ on Facebook where it’s like, ‘Oh my god, people are buying these digital sheep because they want their social currency to show that they’re good at it.”

Belief in Virtual Goods and the Increasing Relevance of NFTs

• The speaker has always been a strong believer in virtual goods. From this perspective, the rise of NFTs and the potential of Web3.0 align with his beliefs.
• The speaker mentions that a lot of the appeal of NFTs and Web3.0 is the ability to participate in shared experiences across different platforms, breaking down barriers and making navigation between different experiences easier.
• This, in turn, holds great value and investment potential for creators who design digital goods that can be used and traded across various platforms.

“So, I think that’s where a lot of the magic of NFTs and a lot of Web3.0 is actually architecting this in a way that it’s fundamentally interoperable.”

The Evolution of Virtual Goods and the Value of Flexibility

• The conversation shifts to the comparison of different virtual worlds like “Minecraft,” “Roblox,” and “Fortnite.” The speaker explains that in the world he envisions, once you’re done with one virtual world, you can simply transfer your items or assets to another.
• The speaker highlights the importance of making digital goods more versatile and fluid, allowing them to retain value across different platforms and experiences.
• He suggests that if a digital item, like a jersey, could only be used in a specific sports arena, its value would diminish, as fewer people would be interested in purchasing it.

“I love your Nicks jacket, but now imagine you get a jersey and you can only use it in the sports arena that you bought it from. That seems kind of silly, and that’s going to reduce the value of owning that.”

Web3 and the Metaverse

• There is immense value in Web3 and the Metaverse, especially in terms of social equality and verified accounts
• Web3 has the potential to revolutionize industries, including fashion, as we spend more time in the Metaverse
• People will be interested in representing their identities and having different digital clothing in the Metaverse
• The digital version of fashion will have a remarkable impact on society
• If we spend more time in the Metaverse, we will be much more concerned with our representation and our identities

“I think if we spend much more time in the Metaverse, then I think we’ll be much more concerned with our representation of our identity and we’ll want different clothing.”

Personal expression and the digital transformation

• The digital transformation allows for conscious or subconscious decisions in how we represent ourselves
• The shift to the digital world will be extraordinary, and people underestimate the impact of what we do online
• Many people are unaware of the reasons behind purchasing luxury items, such as a Rolex watch
• The digital realm makes things more transparent and brings clarity to our actions

“I think that when it’s digital and it’s clear, I think that a lot of conversations that most people have about what’s happening in the digital world actually are showing us who we really are more than anything else.”

The intersection of expression and commerce

• While many view it as commerce, the digital transformation is fundamentally about social dynamics
• The intersection between self-expression, identity, and commerce will create a flexible market
• Making this intersection accessible to everyone will have a significant impact
• The potential of this intersection is much greater than what people currently realize

“The intersection between self-expression, identity, and commerce, especially if we make it programmable, so it’s a more liquid market, I think that’s just gonna be a really big deal, much bigger I think than people realize today.”

Reflection on past experiences

• Mark Zuckerberg finds it refreshing to hear about the lessons learned from previous development cycles, such as early experiments with “Farmville” and past contracts.
• He agrees that there is a clear distinction between social interactions and types of commerce.

“I think there’s a clear line between the social interactions that people have and types of commerce.”

Advancements in technology

• Mark Zuckerberg acknowledges that there is now more technology available that can make Web3 more interoperable and give people more rights to the goods they have.
• He mentions that augmented reality (AR) and virtual reality (VR) can provide a more realistic sense of connection.

“There’s more technology now that can make it more interoperable and give people more rights to the goods that they have and on the augmented reality and virtual reality side, make it feel more realistic in terms of connection.”

Familiar concepts in a new context

• Mark Zuckerberg agrees that many of these concepts are not fundamentally new.
• He sees Web3.0 as a continuation of the dynamics that have always been important in terms of how we communicate and interact with each other.

“I think a lot of these concepts are not fundamentally new in the sense that it’s a continuation of the dynamics that have always been important in terms of how we communicate and interact with each other.”

Personal experiences with collecting

• Mark Zuckerberg reveals that he enjoyed collecting baseball cards and possibly some comic books, but for entertainment rather than as a serious collector.

“I loved baseball cards, probably some comic books, but more for entertainment than as a collector.”

Early experiences with technology

• Mark Zuckerberg recalls the early days of websites like “Chatroulette” where he was on fan pages, and people took screenshots because of his early presence.

“I don’t know if you remember this, but when ‘Chatroulette’ came out, which clearly took 45 minutes because it was cool at first and then it got weirdly fast. The first night literally, I had many pages.”

Mark Zuckerberg’s Experience with Social Products and Dating Apps

• Mark mentions that he was on his own fan page on Facebook.
• He talks about being connected to people with similar interests.
• Mark mentions that at that time, Facebook was already a real company and he was running a large company.
• He describes how, late at night, he would click and randomly meet people.
• Gary asks if Mark remembers that experience.

“It’s hard to have someone explain or write a presentation about what it’s like.”

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